Uh, are you feeling okay? What was that all about...?

in a nutshell doesn't a linux distro consist of any Operating System that utilizes the Linux Kernel?

Last time I checked Ubuntu definitely uses the Linux Kernel.

What doesn't it have in common with the rest of the linux world? You could have provided some examples, as I can't think of anything other than it is convincing more people than it is turning away to switch to linux rather than continue to use windows.


Also to apply this to other "distros" OpenSuse isn't a distro, it is just a fork of Suse. And Fedora isn't a distro, just a fork of Redhat.

I really don't know what you mean BUT I've managed to cut down my reading time for linux articles by a great deal by just skipping articles on Ubuntu ... most repeats and repeats of almost the same thing.

It's getting a little too like another OS.. and not Linux. :-(

Linux is doomed, it will die... well at least it's what going to happen if people in the OpenSource community don't stop fighting each other. The ennemy is somewhere else, look better...

Ah what is it with people and success, eh? I have seen this before in the British press, once someone does well, all the knives come out :(

Come on folks, Ubuntu is getting popular and as a result of this so is Linux. The only people making a fuss about this is the weak lemon squash drinking, parker wearing die hard geeks who don't want their toy to be used by someone else.

If you don't like Ubuntu, don't use it. Download Debian minimal and drown yourself in the command line or get into Gentoo and sit for hours and watch it compile everything.

If like me on the other hand, you use Linux as your main OS to actually do stuff then the rising popularity of Linux is a good thing. I don't know about anyone else out there, but I am so glad that I don't have to worry about malware, viruses and M$ taking 6 months to patch a security flaw.

A previous comment hit the nail on the head, Linux is never going to be popular if fanboys and zealots start fighting amongst themselves and saying that this distro isn't Linux and neither is that one. My dad is better than your dad...

Oh and for the record, I use Foresight but I have Feisty as a VMWare install and it is sure looking good :)

I am really getting sick of the whole "you
are not a real Linux user until you take a big stinky dump on Ubuntu" crud. If you don't like a distro, dont use it. Last time I checked, FOSS was about choice, not about being an elitist.

Somebody should check this guy's account, maybe some large firm has put some money on it :-) FUD

Odd post, very odd. If Ubuntu truly is nothing more than a fork, then what say ye about Debian, Mepis, Knoppix and the like? All are based on Debian, and no one's suggested that Debian isn't linux. Maybe that's the next step?

Yes, Mr. Penguin, please ease off the button. You're really going against the "do what you want to do" character of free software. I'm enjoying using Ubuntu to finally move away from Windows, and I can clearly see that it is a GNU/Linux distro. I've been working on getting my backup plan in order, mostly using the bash shell with vi. Feels a lot like Unix to me for some reason.

I'd think you were trolling to get some bites in your comments here, but this is a common theme for you.

(And as for calling the natives the wrong name, how about not even acknowledging them. The GNUndians, that is.) :-)

I have a tought about ubuntu that it will do the same thing like novel.Now it is gaining muscles and some day in the very near future it will say bye-bye to linux world.Now I am using it but I know this love won't last forever.

Relax, Ubuntu GNU/Linux is an operating system which embraces a lot of binary drivers. But it's getting us some critical mass.

Relax, Ubuntu GNU/Linux is an operating system which embraces a lot of binary drivers. But it's getting us some critical mass.

(Post update comment.) Hmmm... I don't know if I'd characterize myself as a Windows "refugee." That implies a desperate escape.

I think there are a few Windows users like me: fairly happy and productive with Windows, with the cost/tax not too big of a burden (yet), who want to use GNU/Linux because it is free as in free speech. We believe in the philosophy. We also believe the software itself is better.

But there is a big learning curve to overcome if you've accumulated years of expertise in using Windows.

I don't want free operating systems to be just like Windows; I want to learn new and better ways. But it is very helpful to have something that helps bridge the gap. If Ubuntu can help me and others ease out of Windows and in to GNU/Linux, that's fantastic and something to be happy about, IMO. We still have to learn how to use a GNU/Linux system -- I don't think there's any way to escape that. Nor do I want to.

And I think when I've become more accomplished at running a GNU/Linux system, there's a good chance I'll continue to run Ubuntu, because it's still *nix, and you can still do what you want to with it.

You might have to acknowledge that you're an elitist. It's ok if it bothers you that the hillbillies are moving in to your neighborhood.

(Finally, as I think more about it, refugee *is* an apt term, because whether people feel the desperation or not, Windows dependence is really something to flee from.) :-)

@Scott: I had to think quite a bit about that "refugee is an apt term" (apropos refugee found nothing appropriate).

Jokes aside, I find that the matter is rather complex. Lots of ins, outs, what-have-yous. As I wrote here before, even if I could qualify as hardcore user (take it any way you want), I tend to be intrigued by some of Ubuntu's "facilitations". But I value my freedom quite a lot and always try to pay attention not to let go of it beyond reasonable (IMO) limits.

In the end, my opinion is that maybe the tool you use does not really matter that much, as long as you keep your brain switched on during the process.

However, it is true that certain tools favour this practice more than others.

Anyway, my question is: if Canonical is not evil, why is it that they haven't transfered their copyright to a (real) Foundation yet? Aren't we putting enough eggs in Canonical's basket already?

Bah.

Uh, yeah ... last I checked, Ubuntu used the Linux Kernel :/. And because Ubuntu is a very polished and 'out-of-the-box' distribution, your calling it a 'windows replacement' for refugees?

I'v been a long time Linux user, from Slack to Gentoo to Debian, ... -- you name it. So because I choose Ubuntu, that makes me a 'windows lover' looking for something that is 'windows-like'? I think not. In fact, I have never owned a windows computer.

Ubuntu just has a lot of polish and ease to things, which coincidently makes it easy for people who do use windows to transition over to the world of Linux and FOSS. I can do my free software development, freelance work, school work, play games, browse the web, etc on Ubuntu just as I can on any other distribution using the Linux Kernel, so why is it not a Linux distribution?

Who gives a crap of what distribution someone chooses to use, it's their choice. It's as dumb and lame as this stupid GNOME vs KDE thing. "Durr, your a fag for using [insert DE/WM | Linux Distribution]!"

:/

Jeez, Pete, you're getting so many hits from this that they're bleeding over to me, and I run Ubuntu.

Point: Ubuntu runs the Linux kernel. Therefore it's Linux. If, at some point, Canonical decides to ship Ubuntu with a Solaris kernel, or BSD, or a unixized version of ReactOS, then it will cease to be a Linux distribution.

From my point of view, Ubuntu acts just like every Linux distro I've ever used: you can download binaries from a repository, or you can compile the frakless source on your own. Someone coming from a Windows background wouldn't get this, of course, but I still want them to come over to the Light because, as Windows users, they cause me problems.

Now you could argue that Ubuntu is not a GNU/Linux distribution: you could also say the same thing about SuSE, Mandriva, and Red Hat. If you go that way, then basically only Slackware, Debian, and roll-your-own are Truly Linux.

Let people use whatever distribution they want in whatever way they want, so long as it doesn't harm anyone else: that's what Freedom means. If that means that some people say/do things that disgust you, well, that's the price you pay. (And, of course, you're perfectly free to disgust them.)

Oooohhh, alright, I'll do chalkboard lessons.

"My blog is not Everything2. I cannot flame at will."
"My blog is not Everything2. I cannot flame at will."
"My blog is not Everything2. I cannot flame at will."
"My blog is not Everything2. I cannot flame at will."
"My blog is not Everything2. I cannot flame at will."

There, done.

As Jack Webb would have said, "Just the facts." I have downloaded many Ubuntu versions and have been able to get only the first one to install an even barely acceptable graphics interface to display on my Samsung 740N. That has left me with a blank screen with dancing error message each time that reads, "Not optimum display setting," or something to that effect. That is followed by another freshly burned coaster being tossed into the trash can.

i am amazed, that so far no one has touched the facts on Ubuntu, neither the original poster, nor the commentators.
from what i see:
the only positive thing i can see is that Ubuntu makes Linux in general more popular.
it attracts heaps of win users to linux. fullstop.
at our support channel & forum at sidux we get Ubuntu refugees every day starting lenghty discussions why we not use sudo and the like.
what does mr. shuttleworth have in mind? what are his goals? is he the next one to sign up with 'the evil empire'? does he damage debian?
if linux is about choice, then Ubuntu is not linux. it gives no choice. it gives Ubuntu packages (a fraction of possible packages from debian) that wont work in debian.
and i am fed up saying in support: no, sorry, you cannot use this Ubuntu.deb.
so, if i am to sum it up: Ubuntu is on its way out.

Wow - huh. I think you have gained more readership than you thought, Penguin. I know I generally appreciate your posts, and often learn something. This one certainly caught me by surprise, though. You see, Ubuntu was/is my gateway drug into a whole other world, where Windows is not only not the "only real OS" out there, but not even a very good imitation. This post is like a big stake into those venturing out of Windows' shadow: "Go back, you're not wanted here unless you can compile and boot an OS from the commandline". :(

I see you did your lines. Still not sure what the flame was about, but I agree with a lot of the other comments above - I guess it depends on what your goals are for linux distros, as you noted.

I for one will note that if Ubuntu wasn't Linux, I wouldn't have tried it or any other linux distro. I do want to get away from Windows, but it needs to be at a reasonable cost. Ubuntu has made very good tradeoffs so far, at least as much as I can tell.

Ubuntu is Microsoft's attempt to control the Linux movement and give Linux a bad name, for example, bloat; problems recognizing Dell inboard video (that is recognized by Damn Small Linux and others); extreme difficulty removing for the hard drive; Absence of standard alternative browsers Opera, Lynx, Links-Hacked (which are the fastest and bestest). THINK: who is behind the "popularity" of Ubuntu? Don't many things about this distro look fishy -- starting with there being no reason for it's seeming popularity. The "popularity" is manufactured by Microsoft to give Linux a bad name, and to lure people into trying a version of "Linux" that will give them trouble. This is how the big bulleys "compete," by trying to give the competition a bad name.

PETE, YOU'VE BEEN ATTACKED BY "MICROSHAFT SHILLS" [TM].

Congratulations Pete! The comments you've received from a swarm of Microshaft fakes (shills) is a testimonial to your intelligent contribution. Although you didn't say -- probably didn't think -- that uBUMtu is a carefully designed Microshaft booby trap, you provided evidence that will be recognized by many who have noticed many peculiarities of uBUMtu.

As we learned some time ago from ShillTown, Microshaft has hundreds of employees who monitor ALL websites, newsgroups, mail lists, blogs, etc for any mention of Microshaft products, or any competitors, or any of Microshaft's fake "competitors" such as uBUMtu. These shills are well-trained, and will reply to blogs, etc. in order to confuse, diffuse, and abuse. To monitor the Internet with trained armies of info warriors is not difficult for companies with billions of dollars.

Here are *some* of the clues that you have been attacked by Microshaft shills:

Clue 1 - NUMBER AND LENGTH OF COMMENTS - Your gut feeling was correct, Pete. There are more comments here than one would expect regarding an technical Linux post. A common info war technique is to bury useful comments in a thread that becomes long and hard to follow. Notice the *length* of some of the useless and off-topic comments. Also an info war *team* works together to shift the topic away from the worrisome point, using standard good-guy, dumb-guy, smart-guy, nasty-guy roles.

Clue 2 - REALITY2's COMMENT that uBUMtu is a known Microshaft fake Linux, complete with booby traps. I'll bet he didn't read this in any magazine, blog, etc that accepts advertising from Microshaft.

Clue 2 - FALSE INFO INSERTED IN COMMENTS - For example that uBUMtu is easy for Windows users to switch to, that it is "popular." (It's a nice touch that the shills will acknowlege some *trivial* objections, such as the color of the desktop.) This is another part of the shills' job to protect uBUMtu by giving (and repeating) false information.

All together now -- uBUMtu IS A MICROSHAFT FAKE LINUX DISTRO, and Microshaft can get their media stooges to promote it, and the purpose is to insure that people who try to escape from Windows will have a bad experience with what they *think* is Linux. We've past the "information age," and we're now in the "disinformation age," so we might as well get used to it.

Notice that honest Linux users who have tried 5-10 different distros can't understand why uBUMtu is so "popular." Simple. uBUMtu's "popularity" has been bought by Microshaft, who pays/threatens media outlets and controls them with advertising dollars.

Clue 3 - TIMING OF COMMENTS - Note how quickly the attacks appeared after your post -- just hours later -- and soon after any good comment. This is where the extensive Microshaft info war response system comes into play. The timing of multiple comments is a giveaway in this case. (Chucky's gonna get fired for his mistake.)

Clue 4 - NEEDLESS INSULTS AND ARGUMENTS - A typical info war tactic is for shills to make insults and emotional appeals in an attempt to derail a thoughtful discussion. For example, Pete, you posted something interesting, useful, thoughtful. Yet you have "commentors" who say you are "slandering" uBUMtu, which is an emotionally-laden term, and not true at all. They even got you to patiently restate your point. But they still "don't get it." They will refuse to "get it", because their job is to shift the focus of discussion and bury the topic. How do you like the performance of the the guy who comments that he doesn't want to bother commenting, but then goes on an on and on with needless falsehoods and insults?

Clue 5 - CHANGING THE SUBJECT - The Microshaft shills have tried to change the subject to whether or not uBUMtu is a good distro -- not Pete's topic at all.

Note further that the shills talk about "ReactOS vs uBUMtu," but don't even mention any *real* alternatives. There are 150 distos of Linux, but the shills don't mention that you could start at distrowatch.com, (which is not even a comprehensive) and read the comments and reviews, then download distros or buy for $5, and try them out. The shills don't want to help someone to weigh the advantages of this or that Linux distro.

So Pete, thanks for your excellent post. Unfortunately for you, you had such a useful insight that it appeared on the radar of the Microshaft info war machine and you were attacked by a swarm of "Microshaft Shills"[TM].

>so what does that make the other Linux >distros? "Linux for shambling beasts?"

I love it!!

@MotherOfTheBride

wow, you are severely paranoid. "Microshaft shills"?!? lol

ok, simply put, Ubuntu is a good distro in its own right. That is, it's good at providing a relatively easy to use linux install that just "works" (in most cases).

Linux is awesome, and I love it and use it along with BSD unix daily. But until software and hardware vendors start seeing a significant profit in providing proper support for *nix, it will be harder for a novice to use beyond a very limited scope of usefulness. I'm sure this is commond knowledge amongst long-time *nix users, so this whole discussion is kinda pointless. In fact, I dunno why I'm even wasting my time. Perhaps it's the beer...

Funny that the longest and most misinformative post in this thread is the one that says Ubuntu is a conspiracy and you can tell by the length of the posts. :D

Seriously though, I've been using *nix systems exclusively as my desktop since Micrsoft Xenix was the only widely available x86 Unix (and trust me, that was the last MS operating system I used).

I wouldn't know my way around Windows if I tried, I have to go to Google to look up how to do stuff all the time if I'm forced to use Windows - Yet I run, and like Ubuntu because it essentially amounts to a Debian system that's already set up the way I'd like - once I install kubuntu-desktop + ubuntu-desktop packages anyway.

As for incompatibility with debs... what a lame excuse - ever heard of source packages? They're just as easy to install as binary ones, they just take a little longer to install.

Deb and Ian needed a third.

Awesome! I'm keeping my eyes open for developments in ReactOS. Monoliths are SO stone-age, micros are an unfortunately neglected development. Give me NTFS any day, where I can decide. Hybrids evolve, & enrich the 'gene-pool'!